Ask questions, discuss rules, situations and equipment.
A subreddit dedicated to the new Atomic Mass Games' Marvel Crisis Protocol Miniature game!
Super Long Post! But this is a rather huge update that includes GitRepos.
I cover a lot of this stuff in my video found here -
https://youtu.be/IxMLU15dUGw (It's like an hour long and goes over a lot of the stuff said here, before they even released this info. They even use some of the same stuff as evidence.)
Discord Link to info - To see the update in it's origional format.
https://discord.com/channels/988365908009447485/988662112454836234/1090510064609140867 Full list of assets purchased to make Dark & Darker:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16DjiRitUa_R3IkelPNKW0Q8F-H1KFuWXTxxw2q0SCQo/edit#gid=0 Git logs for the first year of development. The earliest entries start at the bottom of the document. It is a little embarrassing showing all our development mistakes and bugs but we believe that is further proof that Dark and Darker was built from the ground up.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qyRk3zyIMuwTOvL3E8zchxw9hiukpKWC/view?usp=sharing - Although our company was officially founded in October 2021, our development logs go back to September 2021. This can be explained by our company history below.
- A bit of background history regarding IRONMACE. Several of our founding members started work as a development team starting in September 2021. The members worked for more than a month in a shabby jiujitsu gym without pay using our own personal PCs as a test of our resolve and teamwork, and also because we had no investors. Once we realized that our members could form the foundations of a viable company, the company was formally founded in late October 2021. The original funds were quickly exhausted and IRONMACE almost went bankrupt as we were unable to acquire investors. Luckily members rallied together and collected funds from over twenty friends and families to bankroll the company for another couple months. This was also quickly exhausted and IRONMACE relied on outsourcing work unrelated to game development to help it survive another month. It was only through grueling meetings and countless, countless, countless rejections that IRONMACE was finally able to find brave VCs willing to fund the studio in 2022. The studio made it point to accept as little money as possible to stay hungry and motivated to get to the current point.
1. Our Korean Response to the takedown claim - From Iron Mace We are Iron Mace, a game developer in Korea developing the PC game Dark & Darker. Through this document, we will deal with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act Take Down Notice (DMCA Take Down Notice) filed against us by Nexon Korea Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as “Nexon”), and our position on allegations of copyright infringement and leakage of trade secrets.
Through its own investigation, Nexon said, "Dark and Darker appears to have been developed by copying and stealing trade secrets and copyrighted information owned by Nexon." said. We want to make it clear that this claim is baseless. Our company, Iron Mace, has never owned or used Nexon's copyrighted materials or trade secrets.
Nexon belatedly registered the copyright related to the P3 project in February 2023, more than six months after Dark and Darker was released, and is claiming copyright infringement against it. The first point of their claim is that one of our members (then director, hereinafter A) illegally moved important assets to a private server “without permission”.
Our response to the above claim is as follows.
Due to the mandatory remote work policy implemented by Nexon in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, A received written approval from Nexon executives to use an external personal server to improve the team's work efficiency from 2020 to 2021. While developing using a personal server for about a year, A asked if it was okay to continue using the personal server. The head of the senior organization responded to the question by telling them to refrain from using private servers. A has agreed to discontinue use of the private server. Instead, we received an exception from the company to work in the office, circumventing the current remote work policy, in order to keep the team working efficiently.
In order to stop using the personal server, A moved the connected system and started deleting trade secret files, but the immediate hurdles (a kind of mid-term evaluation process in the game industry, and if the results are not good, the project may be suspended) , the migration of development systems to internal servers was not a quick and thorough process. As a result, some auto-upload scripts related to the build system were left running. And buildings around the office are closed due to corona expansion, so I can no longer go to work, etc. A made a mistake of using the personal server again without re-approval due to the anxiety of reduced work efficiency and the burden of meeting the schedule and achieving the goal.
At that time, all computers in Nexon's company were monitored using the endpoint solution, so the use of personal servers subject to approval and re-approval was known to Nexon during several months of development. However, during that period, A did not receive a single warning from the security team, and when answering to the head of the higher organization to refrain from using the server, he received an answer saying, 'It's a bit ambiguous to say that it's official/no', so he made a wrong decision. that was hit
A suffered the shock of his previous project being shut down in 2020, and several other projects within Nexon were canceled around the same time. A had doubts about the release along with various circumstances that could only be seen as lack of development support. Later, due to an incident, his trust with his boss was broken, and in June 2021, he finally decided to leave Nexon.
A revealed to members of the development team he had worked with for a long time that he would be leaving the company soon. He cited a lack of support for development as the reason for his departure, and further doubts about whether he would ever be able to launch the project. He also said he welcomes those who would like to join us for the next try. He's likely pushing for a project in a similar genre to the P3 project, but he's made it clear that everything needs to be developed from scratch. The above fact was also proven in the course of investigating a separate individual lawsuit filed by Nexon against A in the testimony collected by the police.
Immediately after Nexon's executives learned of A's plan to resign, their attitude suddenly changed to find A's fault, without any effort to amicably resolve the situation. He then sent an internal audit team to accuse him of stealing files, even though he knew the private server had been used for work for months. Seeing efforts to find out the fault somehow in this way rather than solving it through dialogue, the relationship of trust with the company was completely broken, and A consulted with a lawyer and said that since there are personal information on the personal server, there is no obligation to submit it to the company. After hearing the conclusion, instead of submitting my private server, I completely deleted everything in it.
A was fired due to a claim interpreted differently from his intention, and around August 2021, civil/criminal charges and lawsuits were filed against his house and other assets with omnidirectional seizure and pressure, and several seizures and searches were conducted. has been done up to A's personal case is still ongoing, and claims that he stole or misappropriated these files have yet to be substantiated. He actively cooperated with police investigations every time. Our company was also seized and searched several times during this investigation, but we responded to the investigation with the utmost cooperation in order to prove our innocence. If Nexon's trade secrets were really stolen or misappropriated, nine out of the more than 20 P3 project team members would not have risked joining Iron Mace.
The second issue in the DMCA notice filed by Nexon is the claim that Iron Mace CEO Terence Park abused the suspect's stolen trade secrets and copyrighted material to develop Dark & Darker for his own and Iron Mace's benefit. Our response to this claim is below.
The company's CEO makes it clear that no stolen trade secrets or copyrighted material were used to develop Dark & Darker. Indeed, Terrence Park has repeatedly stressed to his team that in order to maintain the company's vision and branding, third-party trade secrets must not exist by mistake and must be developed from scratch.
Subsequently, in the DMCA notice, Nexon claims that the only way to come up with an idea similar to the P3 project is theft, and as a basis, it claims that the P3 project has never been disclosed to a third party during this period. However, this claim can be proven unequivocally false. Nexon unveiled the P3 in a media showcase in August 2021, and has since written about it in numerous blogs and articles:
https://www.gematsu.com/2021/08/nexon-showcases-12-new-games-project-magnum-project-hp-mabinogi-mobile-more https://pdf.irpocket.com/C3659/GbYe/dYzj/ICN2.pdf https://www.donga.com/news/It/article/all/20210805/108384593/1 Nexon also claims in its DMCA notice that no other game has the same "concept, genre, and plot" as P3, claiming to have created an entirely new concept. But none of the P3 concepts are entirely new. A game already on the market called Expedition Agartha is a similar game in the three categories already stated.
Since then, Iron Mace has claimed without evidence that it is impossible to make a test version of Dark & Darker in just 10 months of founding without using Nexon's trade secrets. Our response to this claim is as follows.
The fact that a big game company like Nexon can't develop games this fast doesn't mean that other studios, big and small, can't develop at that speed.
Iron Mace's rapid pace of development was possible for the following reasons.
Iron Mace began development with 18 people, significantly more than the initial P3 team of about 11 people. The percentage of dual programmers doubled to 3 and 6, respectively.
We used as many 3D game objects as possible, purchased from the Asset Store, which account for most of the cost and time required for game development.
Also, with the permission of the artists, it was developed with a focus on game design and programming.
The server code did not exist because there were no server programmers on the P3 project team. However, Iron Mace was developed by employing senior-level server programmers from the beginning to create a stable server architecture.
Fortunately, we have evidence that clearly shows how we developed the game quickly and efficiently, and we will be making it public soon.
We'll soon publish a list of purchased assets used in Dark & Darker development, proving that almost all 3D assets were purchased from the Unreal Marketplace.
And we have tons of videos to see what major milestone builds look like, from early internal playtests to more recent tests. These videos will also be coming online soon, showing you how to quickly and efficiently develop the game from scratch.
Finally, for verification from a technical point of view, we will soon release the Git log and its file list, which is the development history from the first log in the Git repository to the work on the self-developed anti-cheat module. This is a log over a period of about a year or so. This will allow other developers to easily check our progress and check for stolen code or assets. In addition, since the P3 project was written while learning because none of the programmers had any experience using Unreal Engine at the time of the project, using the code and assets of the P3 project as a reference is a dark and darker project.
It wouldn't have helped you in your progress.
In the DMCA notice, Nexon compared and analyzed files from the Dark & Darker and P3 Projects and said, "The number of files with the same name is too many to be a coincidence." claims. And it claims to have found more than 2,338 files with the same name. Our response to this claim is as follows.
They attached the remaining 1,032 resources to Exhibit D, excluding files generated by using the same game engine. Of these, 950 files were either assets purchased from Unreal's Marketplace or files from plugins. The remaining 82 files (41 to be exact, because two files are created with the same file name) also have the same name because of the general concept and official naming convention recommended in the process of developing a typical first-person fantasy game. (See naming conventions and examples below)
Rules for Writing Unreal Engine Official Names
https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en/recommended-asset-naming-conventions-in-unreal-engine-projects/ example)
Blueprint (BP_) + Arrow => BP_Arrow (Exhibit D 33p)
Material (M_) + Base (Base) => M_Base (Exhibit D 35p)
If Nexon agrees to provide the file, it is suggested to compare and analyze the actual contents of the files with the same name through a third party. We have provided a list of sources for all “same-named” resources listed by Nexon.
In addition, the DMCA notice claims that the two games' character designs, worldviews, and core gameplay are similar. In response to the above claim, we'd like to say that both games borrow settings from very traditional fantasy worlds. None of this is original, and the similarities to the pointed character classes and use of torches can be found in countless other fantasy games. Both games belong to the classic fantasy dungeon exploration genre, and the similarities can be explained.
In addition, Nexon claims that "Iron Mace purchased graphic assets, including character concept art, from the Unreal Marketplace, but the assets purchased from the Unreal Marketplace and Dark & Darker's assets look different, and there are many similarities with those of P3. ” claims. Our position on the claim is as follows.
Most of the 3D assets were purchased from the Unreal Marketplace, but most of the 2D graphic elements, including concept art and UI, were created in-house. The character concept artwork that Nexon claims similarities to is a reflection of a very traditional fantasy setting. In addition, the concept artwork of the two games was created by the same person, so the painting style is also similar. Soon, our concept artist will organize and disclose that the character concept of Dark & Darker does not infringe on the concept of P3. Through this document, Google image search shows artwork of other popular fantasy concepts, and Dark & Darker's concept art follows the general fantasy world, so it looks similar, but I want to prove that I did not infringe P3's copyright. .
The DMCA notice states that the two games' core concepts, genres, and storylines are so similar that "I am convinced that Iron Mace may have used Nexon's trade secrets to create Dark & Darker." Again, Dark & Darker's concept and settings are all largely inspired by traditional and popular fantasy RPG games. The gameplay of adventurers digging through dungeons full of monsters and treasure in search of riches is so common and common that it could be widely applied in many other fantasy games as well.
Just for fun, we asked ChatGPT to explain the definition of a typical PVP dungeon exploration game, and we got the following response.
----------------------------------Content from ChatGPT------------- ----------------------
In this PvP dungeon crawl game, players compete against each other in dangerous and mysterious dungeons filled with traps, puzzles, and monsters.
Players choose their character from several classes, each with unique abilities and playstyles. They need to explore dungeons, defeat monsters, and solve puzzles to advance deeper.
But besides fighting monsters, players also have to face each other in intense PvP battles. They can attack other players to steal loot or gain an advantage, but you have to be careful not to be suddenly attacked by enemy players.
In the meantime, players can collect loot, weapons, and magic items to help them in their missions. They can also trade items with other players or buy and sell them at NPC shops.
Gameplay requires strategic decision-making, and players must decide whether to focus on attacking other players or progressing through the dungeon. They must manage their limited resources carefully, including weapons, spells, and stamina.
The ultimate goal of the game is to reach the deepest dungeon's floor and defeat the final boss. You should be able to beat other players while doing all of this. The game offers an exciting and competitive experience for players who enjoy both PvE and PvP gameplay.
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------
Finally, the common characteristics of the two games announced in Exhibit E are generally shared characteristics that can also be found in many other similar games.
Judging from the information presented, it would be difficult for Nexon itself to believe that Iron Mace infringed on the copyright of the P3 project. And Nexon does not provide evidence that Iron Mace used Nexon's trade secrets to make Dark & Darker, only circumstantial inferences.
Finally, Nexon is accusing Iron Mace of violating Valve's SSA and SOCR, preventing us from delivering our games to fans on the world's largest PC gaming platform. We want Nexon to stop making baseless claims.
In order to resolve issues quickly and definitively, we are willing to provide source code, produced assets, and design documentation for comparison between the two companies. We ask Nexon to make a positive impact on gamers and gaming communities around the world by actively working on resolving issues between the two companies.
That's all of that document. Translated by google.
----------------------------------------------------
2. Concept Artist response: Rebuttal to claims of character design similarity
Hello, this is Dark & Darker's concept artist.
Through this document, we would like to refute the allegation that the concept of P3 was stolen from Dark & Darker.
Nexon claims that Dark & Darker was developed using P3's assets, and claims to be suspicious because of their visual similarity. The contents below are intended to refute this and explain what parts we focused on in class design and why the claim that the results are similar is not valid.
Dark & Darker's classes are made up of classes commonly handled in Dungeons and Dragons and medieval fantasy games influenced by it, and aim for familiar classic fantasy concepts.
Therefore, it cannot be seen that it has the distinctive features of Dark & Darker in appearance or design.
Dark & Darker worked on the class concept based on the following three concerns.
What are the most familiar classes in the memories of classic fantasy fans?
What design can you accept without hesitation even if you are not a fan of classic fantasy?
What is the range that can be expressed with the assets you own (purchased assets)?
P3 and Dark & Darker have the same concept artist (i.e., because I worked on both), the way the characters are portrayed or the painting style may feel similar, but there are significant differences in detailed composition such as costumes.
The following will refute the claim that the classes of P3 and Dark & Darker are similar by comparing each class.
Class Comparison 1: Barbarian
When I started thinking about Dark & Darker's Barbarian, I initially tried to work with a barbaric warrior feel like Conan the Barbarian (movie). However, I had to use the purchased armor assets in common, so I had no choice but to switch to the current Nordic Viking feel.
To elaborate more, even if I drew concept art, I did not have enough time to create assets for it, so I changed the direction of the concept art according to the assets.
Images in document.
Figure 1: A draft of a Dark and Darker Barbarian that was scrapped in the works.
Images in document.
Figure 2: Barbarian used for loading image after drafting
Images in document.
Figure 3 below is various concept art of the barbarian that I referenced during work in this regard. Based on this, we focused on creating a barbarian that fits the worldview of Dark & Darker, and designing it so that there is no particular problem when using equipment of other classes in common.
Figure 3: Concept designs by other artists
Image in document.
Nexon is claiming that P3's Barbarian and Dark & Darker's Barbarian are similar.
As explained earlier, Dark & Darker's Barbarian was created based on works from common fantasy worlds, and furthermore, those used in various games.
Figure 4: P3 and the Barbarian in Dark & Darker
Image in document.
Even in the details, of course, there are differences. P3's barbarian is more colorful than Dark & Darker's barbarian, such as horns, Nordic patterns of armor, beard shape, and cape, and the style is mixed. The shape of the helmet may look similar by adopting the design of the actual German helmet (Yelmo de Gjermundbu), but the detailed design is completely different.
Class Comparison 2: Fighter
Image in document.
Dark & Darker's fighter is a class specialized in melee attacks wearing typical medieval knight armor. The items in Figure 5 below are reference materials when designing fighters, and are also popularly used, heavy armored warriors specializing in melee attacks.
Through the items in Figure 6, you can see what process the current fighter design came out through
Figure 5: Concept designs by other artists
Image in document.
Figure 6: Fighter used for loading image after drafting
Image in document.
Figure 7: P3's Tanker and Dark & Darker's Fighter
Image in document.
Nexon claims that P3's 'Tanker' and Dark & Darker's 'Fighter' were produced in a similar form. However, as you can see from the picture in Figure 7, except for the open helmet, everything is different, including the appearance, armor design, weapon design, bag, and props.
The figure wearing an open helmet is just a type of expression commonly used to show a character's face because it is obscured.
Class Comparison 3: Ranger
In games and movies set in the Middle Ages, rangers were often depicted wearing hoods, and purchased assets also included hoods. The costumes depicted in the Dark & Darker illustration were designed with reference to the asset costumes you own.
Figure 8: Appearance by referring to the clothing on the left and the hood on the right
Image in document.
Figure 9: Ranger used for loading image after cyan
Image in document.
Figure 10: Concept designs by other artists
Image in document.
Figure 11: P3 and Dark & Darker's Ranger
Image in document.
Dark & Darker's Ranger has borrowed the overall color from common designs to keep the sensibility of the old fantasy intact. Also, in order to express the concept of a hunter who fights while hiding in the dark, the use of colors was limited and designed with low saturation.
As you can see by comparing the P3 and Dark & Darker's Ranger illustrations, they are not the same except that they wear hoods and have bows.
Class Comparison 4: Wizard
The design that became the basis of the Dark and Darker Wizard is Gandalf from ‘The Lord of the Rings’, and it is the most easily recognizable image of a wizard.
Figure 12: Concept designs by other artists
Image in document.
Figure 13: Wizard of Dark and Darker with P3
Image in document.
Like the image of the other classes described earlier, Dark & Darker's Wizard expressed a more traditional and classic wizard than P3's Wizard. Wearing a long and cumbersome robe for an adventurer's appearance, it was produced with the intention of taking the form of an old man who is old but wise and still capable of fighting.
Class Comparison 5: Log
Likewise, in the case of logs, other than wearing a hood, the P3 and Dark & Darker logs have different components such as weapons and costumes.
In the case of the rogue, we tried to embody the real thief's play, rather than simply wielding a fast weapon such as a dagger (it is actually possible to steal while playing), and for this purpose, the weapon was highlighted at the beginning, and finally It is made in the form of emphasizing the money bag held in the hand.
Rather, in the case of Rogue, the design was made to approach the essence of a thief more than a thief generally seen.
Figure 14: Initial log cyan
Image in document.
Figure 15: Concept designs by other artists
Image in document.
Figure 16: P3's Thief and Dark & Darker's Rogue
Image in document.
Like the images of other classes described above, P3’s ‘thief’ and Dark & Darker’s ‘rogue’ have different design goals.
Class Comparison 6: Cleric
In general, the class called Cleric is often designed with the Templar Knights as a motif. Dark and darker clerics also adopted a design with a tunic wrapped around chainmail to match this popular design. Also, like other classes, it had to be created based on the assets you have, so I designed it with reference to the assets below.
Figure 17: Polyphoria's assets referencing clothing design
Image in document.
Figure 18: Concept designs by other artists
Image in document.
Figure 19: P3 and Dark & Darker's Cleric
Image in document.
From that point of view, if you compare P3 and Dark & Darker's clerics, you can see that there are many differences in armor, costumes, and patterns.
Conclusion: P3 and Dark & Darker are different.
In this way, the design of the classes expressed in Dark & Darker is only the result of selecting the ones that are most suitable for Dark & Darker among one of the character designs that have appeared in various fantasy games that have been dealt with for decades, and are not designed by stealing P3's trade secrets. didn't
In conclusion, the allegation of theft is only a phenomenon that arises from the fact that the concepts of the two projects are oriented toward a medieval fantasy worldview. We, the development team of Iron Mace, focused on the direction of the game we were aiming for, designed and expressed it accordingly, and revealed that the game was not made by taking the parts that were produced in P3 as it is.
Female, 24, ~220lbs. Medical history: PCOS, kidney stones, depression/anxiety.
I’m just looking for anyone to hear me and not disregard me. I’m suffering and I’m young and I’m so exhausted.
Since December 2021, I have been dealing with an undiagnosed and debilitating medical problem. The symptoms may have been occurring prior to this, but December is when I noticed and when everything began to spiral.
The first major incident was when I was helping set up for a work event. We had walked well over 2 miles - I was tired, but fine. Suddenly, it felt like my lower back tightened (think someone stretching a rubber band as far as it will go without snapping), I began to struggle to walk, my vision tunneled, and I thought I was going to pass out. Luckily, I didn’t and after sitting and resting I felt better.
I proceeded from this like I would any back problem: rest, OTC pain meds, stretching. Nothing helped. Everything got worse, much worse. For months, my pain grew from discomfort to debilitating. It migrated from my back to my hips and legs. I began to have problems with rapid heart rate and shortness of breath. At the time, I attributed it to the pain but looking back, it must have been part of the systematic inflammation I was going through. I also was losing strength everywhere. I could not step onto a curb without pulling myself up. I could not walk more than 10 steps without stopping. I couldn’t even change positions on the couch without hurting. I was starting to have difficulty chewing as well. Everything hurt.
I did get an MRI on my back done which revealed a lower disc bulge, but no one could explain how it could be causing my pain.
I tried everything to fix it: exercise, steroid injections, physical therapy, pain management, visits with a spinal specialist, special chiropractic care (no adjustments), swimming and many others I can’t remember. Everyone thought because none of this worked, that it was somehow my fault. I swear most days I could barely function to get out of bed, it was a miracle I was able to try at all.
My blood work was showing consistently elevated WBC. I had a couple doctors mention that it seemed like I had an infection, but clearly didn’t have one. I also developed a lymph node behind my right ear which an ultrasound cleared of being harmful, but it’s still kind of weird.
Fast forward to October 2022. I visit a hormone specialist for PCOS related things. He does some blood tests and tells me my inflammation levels are really high. He wants me to try an anti-inflammatory diet. It’s strict, but nutritious. In 3 days, 72 hours, I was feeling 60% better. It was like a miracle. The pain was manageable but more remarkably, my strength came back too. I had a doctor tell me my pain was gone because I lost weight, but I don’t think it’s possible to lose over a years worth of pain in 72 hours worth of “weight loss.” And even after the new diet, my inflammation levels were still high. Even still, I definitely wasn’t fixed and couldn’t function like I had been able to prior to before all this happened.
You’d think that would be the end, right? Nope. I began to go through periods of feeling… sick. I don’t know how to describe it except I’d be feeling fine, then I’d suddenly be exhausted, nauseous, and achy again.
I began to see an internal medicine doctor. She’s ran tests, and even sent me to a hematologist (for absolutely no reason), and can’t figure out what’s going on. In January, I got majorly sick with bouts of vomiting and fatigue which they claimed was caused by a “low-carb diet.” Considering all I had been able to eat for weeks was noodles and potatoes, I’m not sure that’s possible but they didn’t care enough to listen.
Since getting sick on and off, I’ve had a hard time sticking to my diet which is mainly vegetables, beans, and lean meats. Not exactly the easiest things to stomach. Which means my pain has come back.
Most recently, I landed in the hospital after having the worst spell of nausea of my life. I was vomiting bile, a LOT of bile, continuously and aggressively. My mom took me to the ER where I had to have tons of IV fluids, dextrose, and electrolytes just to get me stabilized. They did an abdominal ultrasound and CT scan and found nothing. My body pain is back in full swing. All they could say was that I was hypoglycemic, was in metabolic acidosis, and had a high WBC. But they couldn’t identify a root cause. I’m so thankful for their efforts though.
I can’t keep living like this. I can’t get a job, I can’t move out, I can’t do anything but try and figure out what is wrong with me so that I can move forward. I don’t know what’s connected and what’s not connected. I can’t find a single doctor that is willing to take a minute to talk with me.
I respect everyone in the medical field and I know I’m not the only patient, but I’m really, really struggling right now. I’m not looking for an immediate diagnosis or a special pill that will make me better. I’m looking for someone that can listen and put together the pieces without giving up or dismissing me.
Is there anything that stands out to you? Is there a medical professional you think I should reach out to? Any advice is appreciated and I’m sorry for the long post. I’m just so tired and upset.